## This is the game that never ends, it just goes on and on, my friends... ##
The second Heroclix game at Crypt Leak and Abbygal's went off as scheduled Saturday, including Eric's being there for it this time. Another late start to the game itself, but that was little excuse for how long it ran. We called an end and wrapped everything up about 4am.
This was Eric's first time playing, while CL and A had only played the once before, so every turn was tentative. I was trying to be good about pointing out opportunities to each player, even when it was at my team's expense.
Everyone, ultimately, seemed to have a fairly good time of it, but when something goes on that long it's difficult to say what the lasting impression will be, especially as it virtually guarantees a ruined (or, at best, decadently languorous) day after.
If there's another of these clix get-togethers it'll be best to remember it's just a game and to put a time limit on it, preferably in a way that presses each player to complete his turn within three or four minutes. If we'd limited it to a set number of rounds I don't know if that would have been enough -- a tally sheet of how many turns we took probably wouldn't be impressive.
Using smaller teams -- all of this weekend's teams were right around 630 points - is probably a good argument to be made, but it's always so unsatisfying trying to create a themed teams I'm interested in playing for even 400 pts, especially if it's someone like the Avengers. Still, yes, that strikes me as a clearly sane choice, much as I suspect other experienced players find the notion of hanging 600+ pt teams to new players a dubious notion. My intentions were good - to provide more options explore more powers and game mechanics - but it could very well be that it was too much to expect clear decisions to emerge.
Now I've gone and made myself feel foolish.
For the record, these are the teams each chose from the ones I'd assembled:
First-timeer Eric chose the "X-Men oddbals & time-shifted folks" I'd assembled (one of six choices built around the X-Men) of mostly new-age X-people I have little to no experience with as characters, but as he's about a decade younger I knew the meant much more to him.
Bishop veteran + Automatic Regeneration
Soldier X (Cable) veteran
Psylocke (AW) veteran
Blink vet + Passenger
Domino vet
Gambit vet
Moonstar vet + Force Field + Heightened Reflexes
Forge + Swingline
A went for the Femme Fatale team I'd made sure was there as an option:
White Queen experienced
Moondragon unique + Automatic Regeneration
Spiral unique + Armor Piercing
She-Hulk veteran + Unstoppable + Shellhead
Elektra (IC unique)Swingline + Armor Piercing
Phoenix (unique from Ultimates set)
Morgan Le Fay + Camouflage
Some powerful women on that team. Three powerful mind controllers, one of them with three targets and a 12 range. Especially as the game wore on we had teammates beating on each other.
CL took the slightly re-fit Defenders team:
Dr. Strange (FF) vetFor the record, Patsy was still so much dead weight. She won't survive onto future teams... at least not unless she at least gets some Pounce on her to make her active.
Nighthawk vet
Valkyrie vet
Silver Surfer 173 pt unique + Automatic Regeneration
Hulk (Mutant Mayhem) vet + Unstoppable + Double-Time + Haymaker
Patsy Walker
While I, for no good reason other than it was one of those I'd set up for the earlier match which remained unplayed, featuring pieces almost none of which I'd played prior, and which seemed at least capable of holding up for awhile against the other teams -- the Brotherhood team:
Magneto (Ultimates) uniqueAs I implied up top, this left my Sunday in a strange state, as I slept in and then did a great deal of lying about, tv watching and reading. A little cooking, too, but not much of note.
Pyro (IC) vet
Rogue (FF) R + Armor Piercing
Sabretooth (Ult) vet + Automatic Regeneration + Swingline
Scarlet Witch (FF)
Cain Marko (FF) + Unstoppable + Fortitude
Avalanche veteran
A busy week ahead, including an extremely early start for me Monday.
Tonight, though, I'm going to continue to try to continue enjoying the sliver of weekend that remains.
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Comments
The X-Men team you listed is very similar to what I end up facing here whenever I play Super Drama Teen, although she usually puts Cain Marko on her force as well. The Femmes Fatale team has several figs I don't possess myself (Spiral, Phoenix, the Vet She Hulk) and I probably would have put the Enchantress on any such team I built... but Morgan LeFay is a much better version of that particular idea.
Oddly, I was just thinking about my Morgan LeFay fig yesterday as I was watching JUSTICE LEAGUE episodes off the DVD SuperFiancee rented for me. The two parter with the Demon guest starring was one of the weaker entries there, although, as always, it was nice to see other characters from the DCU brought to life in animated form. (Equally disappointing from a plot perspective, but even more fun from in a guest star context, was the three part, overly belabored "Savage Time", which featured appearances by the Blackhawks and Sgt. Rock and Easy Company.)
I will, once more, point out that every fig is 'made active' by my House Rules. I'm not sure that helps Patsy Walker a great deal, though; the 8 attack value just cripples her whether she can move and use it, or not.
Lately I've been starting to turn over in my head your old idea for having figures move one at a time, alternating among the players. I agree that the whole dynamic of the game as currently set up is to make people maneuver as best they can to get in the first big attack, because as a general rule, whoever attacks first manages to win. I can remember games I'd play in Florida against Corey and his clique, where there would be six of us playing, and Corey would inevitably hang back and let everyone else get involved in fighting each other, before he'd come in and take a single devestating turn with his entire force against the highest point figure currently on the board. Generally, given that such games always had time limits on them, this was a winning strategy... once he'd managed to take down someone's big Kingdom Come fig, he'd then retreat, and usually no one could make up the deficit before 10 o'clock rolled around.
That style of game play always led to bad feelings, and I would very much like to develop a mechanism that would make more interaction a part of the game... some kind of array of defensive options that a player being attacked could take, perhaps, like dodging, or deploying specifically designated defensive powers as free actions, or something like that. I haven't given it much thought, but I'd vastly prefer some development like that, to what Seth is doing to address the same problem. I just don't LIKE playing with figs whose attack values top out at 9; it strikes me as ridiculous, in a game where characters like Taskmaster have an attack of 11.
I enjoyed whomping Avalanche with a motorcycle. But freakin' Bishop wouldn't die!
Next time I'm going to play bad guys. And Patsy Walker (she's real small).
It was the bad TV that's on at 4:30 on Sunday morning that wore me out. The food probably helped.
It's worth noting that with my house rules or without them, the game is very different when you're playing with a time limit, as opposed to last man standing.
Sometime tonight, in a separate post (already begun), I'll take a stab at the general flow of the game, some highlights and (if I recall them) some low points, including the general lay of things by the time we came to a stop, and some comment responses that will take more space than I should in a comment.
As CL noted, seeing Avalanche flattened by Rogue wielding a motorcycle was a sight. They were together on a ledge when Morgan Mind-Controlled Rogue... and that was that.
Monday day's proving too thick and busy for me to say much else before tonight, though.
Mike graciously didn't mention that I pooped out at 12:30, and had no idea when the rest of the gang closed up the game until the next day.
Next time I think it might save Mike some effort if we play card games. The time after THAT we get back into Heroclixin' again.
Your planning was appreciated and again, I thank you for making up a Girl Gang just for little ol' me.
As I was sayin'... Patsy Walker is real small.
A: Knowing when to call it a night is a call only you can make. There's little point in making a trial out of it and destroying your sleep schedule. CL and I (as you noted) are each more comfortable with late nights when our schedules allow it.
For the sake of balance/reciprocity I could go for the card game session, though as I've mentioned times before I'm not a gamer by preference. I'd play cards or most games much as I might drink beer somewhere - to be social, not because I have any strong desire to -- though Guillotine is a good choice if I have to play a card game.
Definitely the next time clix are played a time limit has to be set. Normal matches in weekly play at venues run about 45 minutes. Even if there's four of us we should consider capping a game at 90 minutes. Giving ourselves (loosely) a time limit on turns is likely the best way, probably along with cutting the team builds to 300 pts. Smaller teams, fewer choices, higher (team) mortality. A faster pace at this stage is probably the best way to go. More's going to be learned by a relatively rapid series of mistakes than by long, careful decisions.
Having our combined teams go up against the Spectre is another option, though my money's not going to be on us.
We do that and we can have plenty of time to smash up the landscape and lop off the heads of various royalty in the same day.
CL: Ah! Now I understand! Yeah, that's probably the most insteresting aspect of the character, having started out as a non-superhero character Atlas/Marvel's decidedly non-hero line of girl comics (going back to 1944), being pulled into the Marvel mainstream universe in the '70s to become a superhero, eventually marry Satan's son, die and return from the dead with psychic powers. Quite a trip.
I'll also mention that when every piece can move and attack on the same turn, it really speeds games up.
Putting a time limit on your game will also put giant bullseyes on any higher point figures on the board, so going for lower cost teams is a good idea, too. Perhaps even imposing an upper limit per figure (say, 85 points) would be a good idea. That way, you still get a few figs on each team... but then, as you'll be building all the teams, I'm sure you'll come up with good spreads.
I know that for myself, especially at this stage, I'm not playing with the #1 aim being to win, so that helps. That doesn't mean I like to lose, but just that I'm trying to have fun playing and that means taking some risks and trying some moves out. Part of it's to demonstrate, part to learn.
While I don't believe I'll put a formal cap on the cost of individual pieces I do in general try to keep from putting too many eggs in one basket. Still, providing a couple options where the 300 pt team is made of only two or three characters is something I like to do. For this most recent match I created a team of Thanos, Terrax and Super Skrull, each laden with Feats, as one of the ~630 pt teams. No one chose to play them, but I like that sort of option being available to try out. Obviously it won't be so extreme within the boundaries of a 300 pt match, but I might still at least attempt an Avengers squad built around one, high-cost member like Thor or Iron Man. This might be one of those times that the Tony Stark LE I picked up would work as a vialble vet Iron Man alternative because the 22 points of difference is considerable wiggle room in a 300 pt. build, not to mention the up-front Perplex. (Chances are the vet will still make the cut - he offers so much more and could be a steamroller in a 300 pt match - but it's more of a debate here than it would likely be in a 600+ pt game where I have so many more points to spend.)
The concensus in our tiny group so far has been to play the game within the official rules since the pieces are being crafted to operate in that structure and are part of the reason why AVs have been leveled out more over the sweep of the dial & why some powers that don't strictly seem to fit the character have found their way onto some dials. Certainly, granting everyone move & attack powers offers many advantages, but if I start playing that way it'll spoil me; while I don't want to work venue play into my regular schedule, I also don't want to shut myself out of it forever. Marquees can be fun, the same with pre-releases, and I did enjoy some aspects of general venue play when I could swing the schedule. Not everyone there was strictly win-oriented, and many did come to play favorite characters.
Although, as far as that goes, unless your local group are super hero comics fans, it probably doesn't make much difference to them whether Batman can swing down from a rooftop and kick Scarecrow in the head in one move.
Anyway, I certainly understand your reasons, and absolutely, if you plan to keep playing in 'official' games, there's no point in using the House Rules elsewhere, especially since you're probably entirely correct -- I suspect once you've accustomed yourself to my House Rules, you'll find the experience of playing WK's rules again horribly stifling.
As to timed games, it simply causes an entirely different array of strategies to evolve. If you're playing last man standing, ultimately, how many characters you take out, and how powerful they are, doesn't matter. All that matters is making sure you have the last fig out there on the board.
In one of our early games, before we started setting stop times, Scott was pretty clearly winning -- he had something like 3 characters still on the board, as opposed to one each for Paul and I. Paul still had his Professor X out, although Baldy was down to his last couple of clicks, and I still had a mostly untouched IC Captain America out -- I forget which level of the REV, but probably not the Vet, since I recollect he was hiding.
Anyway, as Scott was maneuvering to take Professor X out, before coming for Cap, I took a last futile shot, and nailed Charlie in the back of the head with Cap's shield. As this was obviously foolish and pointless within the context of that game, it seemed like gratuitous brutality, and made everyone laugh... but, of course, in a timed game, had the time limit been about to expire, it would have been a very cogent move, adding to my victory point total while denying a few points to Scott.
I'm not sure which way I prefer my games, but I will say, given the general demands of adulthood, I think one can only indulge in a last man standing game when the build totals are pretty low. A thousand point JLA vs Avengers vs Brotherhood vs Masters of Evil game, fought to the bitter end, would be something to devote a holiday weekend to.