Rock, Paper, Scissors
Not getting home until after 3:30 this morning definitely threw my schedule off. A day lost to some domestic tasks, shopping, meal prep, some family business, a little movie watching and some attempts to sleep. Only sleeping for three to four hours at a stretch continues to leave me... un-recharged. Hopefully I'll manage a longer stretch tonight; coming up on a Monday morning the only thing that's worth betting on is that I'll feel most like sleeping when the time comes to get up and start getting ready for the work week.
CL & A, as ever, were wonderful hosts, and three out of household pets were happy to hang out with us for as long as we wished.
That was for yesterday's gaming day, which had several things that worked out, including all five of us being there. We didn't get a start with the game until 4:30 or so Saturday afternoon.
At least at this level of player experience paring it down to 500 pt builds (from the odd 640-ish ones the previous time) didn't do enough to reduce the options and keep the game brisk. I don't get to play often, while the others' experience with the game ranged from no games to one to two.
New player Jason, as expected, had been looking into the game, figures, powers, etc. and so wasn't looking for much coaching. He'll almost certainly be the first one to build his own team, which will be the development that'll most significantly turn the nature of these matches. Being the one who has technically spent years more in the game (though really more as collector than player) than the other players, along with being the one who constructed all the teams... it can make for some awkward moments for me, especially being someone who doesn't like to press advantages, especially if it's clear that one player's not having a good time, doesn't quite grasp some of the rules and is too vulnerable. That I was intimately aware of most aspects of all the dials on the map was also something that made me even less comfortable with sweeping over an opponent's team.
Anyway, for next time we'll drop to 300 pts, which almost can't help but speed up the pace.
To complete the record, here's the team I went with, an Avengers team:
As it turned out I held back for much of the game largely because it would have been too easy to move in and devastate the only team that was in my area or main path. I ended up, instead, taking a while to move along a different side of the map -- two outdoor maps of the full-size variety, that we partially overlapped, btw. -- and leaned into Jason's team.
So, the closer I can come to having the other players really (conceptually) owning - having thought through the advantages and vulnerabilities of - their teams, the better it'll go. Prepping team options around each person's experiences -- seeing what they felt worked for them and what they were most frustrated by -- and character preferences is the most obvious step in that direction. Getting breakdowns of those teams into their hands a week or more ahead of time is also an advisable step.
Overlapping elements to create something slightly larger than the old style map. Trying to make reasonable starting areas for five people on a map with an even number of sides is going to present some problems, but something the others agreed on was that there was too much space to cover getting into action. I suspect they'll revise that a little if we're all almost immediately in each others' faces, but at least things will happen quickly.
Maybe allowing - if we have five players next time - the others to work in pairs of two 300 point teams, while I build to 600 points - might be a fun way to work a game. Even though the two pairs will have each other as opponents, almost certainly I'll be seen as the Big Threat, so it'll be a matter of how quickly they go from trying to dismantle me as a threat to turning on the other pair. Have two of the other players running hero teams while two run villain teams, while perhaps I represent a 600 pt alien invasion, perhaps? Heroes and villains, Earthmen all, momentarily setting aside their emnity... but for how long? The two hero teams and the two villain teams, working at units, will get their full allotment of moves - 6 each, plus anything their TAs, or individual team Leadership rolls pull off - but it'll have to alternate. Each 600 pt unit will see Hero team A take up to its alloted actions, then Villain team A will do the same, then the Alien Invader team will get up to half its full number of actions. The Hero team B, Villain Team B, then the remainder of the Alien Invader actions. Possibly the Alien team (mine) will be divided into quarters (two non-free actions, plus any extra action or free actions as I choose) so that I can react to each half-team's actions. Yeah, that's better.
I'll even be willing to let them all confer on moves, including allowing one team's character to pick up or otherwise move someone on another team via flying, TK, etc. providing the character being moved is being done so with the permission of that character's true controller. This will allow the heroes and villains to combine forces if they choose, but they'll have to remain aware that the more they mix the more vulnerable they'll be once their attentions start to turn on each other. Certainly, they'll have to be careful about pulling a TK-launch of one team's character by another team, as I'll have a chance to react. This'll put an extra edge on it, as a villain offering to fling a hero into a better striking position is potentially flinging him into a meat grinder since he won't be able to immediately act upon landing. Letting Perplex be used between teams and lasting through the entire round strikes me as a good option, too.
Nearly everyone is fine with how the rules work, (shifting to broadly different house rules isn't a good option here IMHO) -- and that it's just a game anyway. Still, emphasizing how there's a Rock, Paper Scissors aspect to the game -- one element that can trump another, and another to trump that in turn, except with larger loops and more elements in the circle, is probably in order.
Not getting home until after 3:30 this morning definitely threw my schedule off. A day lost to some domestic tasks, shopping, meal prep, some family business, a little movie watching and some attempts to sleep. Only sleeping for three to four hours at a stretch continues to leave me... un-recharged. Hopefully I'll manage a longer stretch tonight; coming up on a Monday morning the only thing that's worth betting on is that I'll feel most like sleeping when the time comes to get up and start getting ready for the work week.
CL & A, as ever, were wonderful hosts, and three out of household pets were happy to hang out with us for as long as we wished.
That was for yesterday's gaming day, which had several things that worked out, including all five of us being there. We didn't get a start with the game until 4:30 or so Saturday afternoon.
At least at this level of player experience paring it down to 500 pt builds (from the odd 640-ish ones the previous time) didn't do enough to reduce the options and keep the game brisk. I don't get to play often, while the others' experience with the game ranged from no games to one to two.
New player Jason, as expected, had been looking into the game, figures, powers, etc. and so wasn't looking for much coaching. He'll almost certainly be the first one to build his own team, which will be the development that'll most significantly turn the nature of these matches. Being the one who has technically spent years more in the game (though really more as collector than player) than the other players, along with being the one who constructed all the teams... it can make for some awkward moments for me, especially being someone who doesn't like to press advantages, especially if it's clear that one player's not having a good time, doesn't quite grasp some of the rules and is too vulnerable. That I was intimately aware of most aspects of all the dials on the map was also something that made me even less comfortable with sweeping over an opponent's team.
Anyway, for next time we'll drop to 300 pts, which almost can't help but speed up the pace.
To complete the record, here's the team I went with, an Avengers team:
Iron Man (SN LE) 160 ptsWith the recent addition of the 80's design Iron Man and Ant Man, I'd wanted to play something like this mix of West Coast and early East Coast Avengers teams, pairing Hawkeye & Mockingbird, Ant Man & Wasp - each romantically-linked couples, though that did make things awkward for Iron Man & Quicksilver, especially with how Pietro's dressed.
+ Stunning Blow 10 pts + A.P. 10 pts + Shellhead 10 pts = 190 pts
Hawkeye V 84 pts + Armor Piercing 10 pts = 94 pts.
Quicksilver Exp. 62 pts + A.P. 10 pts = 72 pts.
Ant Man R 48 pts
Wasp U 44 pts + A.P. 10 pts + Stunning Blow 10 pts = 64 pts.
Mockingbird E 27 pts + Vault 3 = 30 pts.
As it turned out I held back for much of the game largely because it would have been too easy to move in and devastate the only team that was in my area or main path. I ended up, instead, taking a while to move along a different side of the map -- two outdoor maps of the full-size variety, that we partially overlapped, btw. -- and leaned into Jason's team.
So, the closer I can come to having the other players really (conceptually) owning - having thought through the advantages and vulnerabilities of - their teams, the better it'll go. Prepping team options around each person's experiences -- seeing what they felt worked for them and what they were most frustrated by -- and character preferences is the most obvious step in that direction. Getting breakdowns of those teams into their hands a week or more ahead of time is also an advisable step.
Overlapping elements to create something slightly larger than the old style map. Trying to make reasonable starting areas for five people on a map with an even number of sides is going to present some problems, but something the others agreed on was that there was too much space to cover getting into action. I suspect they'll revise that a little if we're all almost immediately in each others' faces, but at least things will happen quickly.
Maybe allowing - if we have five players next time - the others to work in pairs of two 300 point teams, while I build to 600 points - might be a fun way to work a game. Even though the two pairs will have each other as opponents, almost certainly I'll be seen as the Big Threat, so it'll be a matter of how quickly they go from trying to dismantle me as a threat to turning on the other pair. Have two of the other players running hero teams while two run villain teams, while perhaps I represent a 600 pt alien invasion, perhaps? Heroes and villains, Earthmen all, momentarily setting aside their emnity... but for how long? The two hero teams and the two villain teams, working at units, will get their full allotment of moves - 6 each, plus anything their TAs, or individual team Leadership rolls pull off - but it'll have to alternate. Each 600 pt unit will see Hero team A take up to its alloted actions, then Villain team A will do the same, then the Alien Invader team will get up to half its full number of actions. The Hero team B, Villain Team B, then the remainder of the Alien Invader actions. Possibly the Alien team (mine) will be divided into quarters (two non-free actions, plus any extra action or free actions as I choose) so that I can react to each half-team's actions. Yeah, that's better.
I'll even be willing to let them all confer on moves, including allowing one team's character to pick up or otherwise move someone on another team via flying, TK, etc. providing the character being moved is being done so with the permission of that character's true controller. This will allow the heroes and villains to combine forces if they choose, but they'll have to remain aware that the more they mix the more vulnerable they'll be once their attentions start to turn on each other. Certainly, they'll have to be careful about pulling a TK-launch of one team's character by another team, as I'll have a chance to react. This'll put an extra edge on it, as a villain offering to fling a hero into a better striking position is potentially flinging him into a meat grinder since he won't be able to immediately act upon landing. Letting Perplex be used between teams and lasting through the entire round strikes me as a good option, too.
Nearly everyone is fine with how the rules work, (shifting to broadly different house rules isn't a good option here IMHO) -- and that it's just a game anyway. Still, emphasizing how there's a Rock, Paper Scissors aspect to the game -- one element that can trump another, and another to trump that in turn, except with larger loops and more elements in the circle, is probably in order.
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Comments
It's much the same reason why the folks I played with once or twice in Zhills wouldn't consider my House Rules, despite the fact that most of them admitted on different occasions that it would be more fun to play under them, and it would probably make it easier for them to interest other gamers they knew in 'clix, too. Two or three of them played infrequently in WK supported events in Tampa, and they were worried that they'd get too used to the admittedly very different rules.
Of course, I also think a large component for that group was simple ego -- the alpha male of the group simply wasn't going to tolerate some newbie coming in and rearranging his gaming context that way, and he especially wasn't going to tolerate his 'friends' heaping praise on someone else's rule redesigns. If I could have found some way to convince him my House Rules were all HIS idea, I suspect they'd have gotten a much warmer reception.
For myself, my experience has been, when people will give them a try, they find playing clix to be MUCH more fun, especially if they are comics fans and familiar with the characters behind the game pieces at all.
As I've noted extensively on my blog, I simply can't play by the normal WK rules. I just can't do it. Having found a way to make the game board 'come alive', as you once described it, I just can't go back to 'Spider-Man jumps down from the rooftop and stands very still next to Doc Ock so Doc Ock can attack him first next turn'. Or 'The Vulture picks up the Abomination and carries him 8 squares'. Or 'Jean Grey telekinetically moves the Angel up next to the Blob so the Angel can attack the Blob without waiting until next turn'.
None of that makes any sense and, well, things making 'sense' means a great deal to me... but, I know, you understand all that.
Obviously, though, you know your group of players and you are the best judge as to how they will most enjoy playing the game. So I'll shut up about my House Rules from this point on, and just wish you all happy clixing.
Given the personalities involved, house rules could get so convoluted that we'd be playing Fizzbin after long.
I agree that we should at least try to develop our own teams for the next match. While I don't mind being an enabler by sharing your plastic crack (hey tovarich- I give you jalapeño poppers for to play cleex), we might learn more strategy by choosing our own sides.
Dumuavpu!
Two of the people currently involved in these games occasionally show hints of possibly playing in other, official clix games at venues, making it even less a good idea to shift from the official rules.
If I'd seen no developments in the game, via both addition of new Feats and what's becoming an annual rules revision (the latter being mostly tweaking, but with some changes in powers and team abilities, too) I'd be more inclined towards dissatisfaction. I don't rankle under official rules to the extent you do, having seen the way the game's developed since its inception. They may move in odd half-measures, but I'm seeing a willingness to adapt. I understand their caution because most changes in an existing game structure will raise or drop some characters' value while leaving others unaffected, and it isn't as if they can realistically issue revised cost lists for the pieces.
What really remains to be seen is if we're every going to see a big, sweeping change in the rules at one stroke. As a company, they're likely interested in riding this train as long
as possible. Rules changes that improve the game and bring more people into it should benefit them. Even if changes make old pieces more playable it should be possible -- easily so -- to make new pieces that take better advantage of those changes, so the sales will continue.
Without question there are some poor structures in place, but I'm much more comfortable with timing issues (character A moves into position, ending his turn, opponent gets to react, character A has to decide whether to push next turn for action -- or action may now be impossible if he's taken damage) as more options come into view between the addition of new clix and new feats to modify power sets.
CL: Yeah, it's a mixed bunch. We're best off sticking to the official rules so there's a set authority to refer to.
I was happy to hear the "next time," too. I have no problem in the slightest with providing the pieces, cards, etc., as anyone else trying to jump in and accumulate their own pieces at a level to be able to compete comfortably... it would be an unnecessary expense and one likely to be regretted before long. Besides, it's an open-ended expense, too, and then we'd have to keep straight whose pieces are whose. I've already bought thousands of them and am still buying into the new sets, so sharing them in a gaming pool just means I'm finally getting more use out of them, better justifying my expense.
That the consensus appeared to be for next time to aim to play two or three small-size teams so we can pick up the pace, try out more options and generally allow people to gain experience the way they should - by getting blown off the map - was good news. If even 300 points is too large for this we can cut it down to a very lean 200. Certainly, there are matches where people play 100 pt teams, but that's likely to be too limiting. The game is designed and has been periodically designed to work optimally with 300 pt. teams -- I've seen the set designers and others from the inside mention that multiple times.
The alien invasion, heroes & villains doubles match I was proposing in this entry might be best for the time after that. My aim there was to allow people chances to safely confer on moves in a team spirit and to make the situation more comfortable in making me more of an initial target. Beyond that, knowing that it's just a matter of time before the two large teams would turn on each other, should make for a more interesting game. Still, getting some fast, individual team play under everyone's belts first can only help.
I wouldn't want to think of hauling all of even my Marvel pieces over each time, and wouldn't want to consider we'd be spending hours pre-game on a game day creating teams, but for those who want to create teams wholly on their own I could get lists from them ahead of time so I can a) confirm I have certain pieces and b) bring them. If people throw in red herrings to make it less obvious which teams they're building, all the better. Turning it into a quick roster fill on the game day would be fine. Inevitably we'll have some overlap, as some pieces are definitely far more useful than others, but that should be manageable.
I don't at all mind building teams or helping people with theirs, but getting closer to making Player A's team really (conceptually) Player A's can only help. It'll make me less self-conscious of my own team choice and of weighing in against an opponent. E's team would have been too easy for my bunch to take down in this most recent match, and that was definitely one of the factors that affected my veering to the left, around his team, blowing off turns in move and rest actions and, finally, picking on Jason's team.
Another one succumbs.
The shame of it. I'm looking away now.
I have to remember to bring something more than me and the plastic this time, though. Truly, I'm the latch-key child of wolves!
Also, slipping in a game of Guillotine along the way would be a nice shift in pace. I'm especially interested in seeing how it plays if there's more than three of us, though three worked well, too. I'll just have to review the rules first as it's been a while.
Hoping that the holidays don't pound us too much, maybe we can work another time in before the end of the year, especially as we're each looking at taking most or all of that Christmas to New Year's stretch off. Heh, I know that this Saturday night I'm going to be wishing I was definitely doing something else than what I've more or less obligated myself to do.